Another wonky question: I was fiddling around with RNBRSUB and tried to write my own with custom billing classes. I already generated a *RATEFILE with the values that I want, but I need to replace RNBRSUB with a real one. I have the one that UM used - its complicated with rates for a bunch of different host and machine combinations. I simplified it for my purposes but it refences COPY:GLOBALS, which I cannot find in d6.0 nor in the index of files on the distribution tapes. There is a BNCH: GLOBALS, but this doesn't seem to have some of the definitions I need and somewhere in there it reference COPY:GLOBALS* files that don't exist. I'm not even sure I can assemble it with *ASMG, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Thanks

I have additional disk volumes that I add to the system by running SYS:DSK from INIT:INITCMD. I am seeing an issue where other processes start ahead of this and if the volume isn't mounted yet, errors occur. The biggest one is the with *CMD. If the current log file is on one of the volumes that has quite gotten mounted yet, *CMD will not start properly. In this case, it locks *STATISTICS and everything piles up behind that waiting on the file. In this case, the *CMD job needs to be BLASTed (STOP and GOOSE don't work) and the log file will need to be manually created (and set to SIZE=400P and MAXSIZE=400P) I see that there appear to be 6 slots for volumes created in TABLES. MTS600 is the only one filled in. Do I just need to use RAMROD to fill in the volume ID for the other empty slots so the volumes get mounted right at startup or are there other parameters involved in that data structure that need to be set as well?

When I load d6.0, it starts a Telnet server task and the IPL info shows it attempting to activate telnet connections, but says that none are available. Is that because TABLES doesn't have any defined, or that the HIM support is not present in the current version of Hercules? Just wondering if any TCP/IP services would work under d6.0 with the version of TABLES installed in that system under newer Hercules once the HIM support is installed. Finally, has there been any change about the licensing of IBM software like *PASCALVS, *FTNVS and *ASMH? I read somewhere that IBM let a bunch of stuff fall out of copyright, but not sure if it affects availability of these

In preparation for d7.0, I was wondering which version of Hercules has the mods to allow networking (FTP, Telnet, etc)? Mike, I know you mentioned that you had to check in changes. I still can’t get d6.0 to work with Hercules 4.5 – it super-dumps from 30 seconds to 1 week after IPL. I may upgrade to CentOs 9 and all of the latest utilities. My VM machine is CentOs 7.0. John

Hello MTS community! After some moderate reading and light usage of MTS, I would appreciate if you could answer some of my questions. 1.) Now that archive.michigan-terminal-system.org has been down for almost a year - though well-archived on Archive.org, and with the Google Drive links still existing - will this mailing list be the only home of the MTS community, or will there eventually be another website? 2.) Obviously not everything can be released for legal/licensing reasons, and sorting thru it all for D7.0 will take however long it takes. But I would like to know: are these files picked out yet but just not publicly available pre-usable-system, or are most of these files still being negotiated with rightsholders/programmers/etc? (As far as I've read many/most of the post-D6.0 redistribution tapes are still lost, so obviously those can't be sifted through yet.) 3.) Is it possible to connect a VT52/VT100/Tektronix to the current D6.0A? Or would that require the networking support in D7.0? (Vol. 4 Appendix B reads to me like UMnet needs to be functioning first.) 4.) Browsed through CCM 448 [1] about VSS. However, I still have a few questions: a.) What version of MVS/370 did support stop at? Can it run programs for the venerable 3.8j? b.) Was there networking support? [1]https://books.google.com/books?id=tH9QAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA24-PP1&lpg=RA24-PP1&dq=university+of+michigan+computing+center+%22memo+448%22&ots=1Mxlg5xv3m&sig=ACfU3U2C63-_TOeuMm3MSWBLI-db6ykldw&hl=en#v=onepage&q=university%20of%20michigan%20computing%20center%20%22memo%20448%22&f=false 5.) I read the previous message about the HIM merge. Is this fork publicly available? 6.) There were several MTS systems on the BITNET network[1]. Looking through the bitnet writeup (6.0T5 -1454), MTS BITNET supported operation over multiple link protocols: 313 The full complement of RSCS link protocols will be supported. 314 This requirement allows interworking with RSCS emulation packages 315 which only implement a single protocol. 718 Link protocols (VMB, VMC, NJE, and X.25) 1166 At this writing, only the VMB DSP has been written at the protocol 1167 layer and the SDA DSP at the physical device layer. In addition, 1168 a subtasking monitor unit check routine for SDA device type has 1169 been written. 1367 UBC and SFU have expressed a desire to implement their Netnorth 1368 link using X.25 and Datapac, because bisync is not available. It 1369 should be possible to substitute the UBCnet X.25 DSP for either 1370 the SDA or CTCA DSPs to provide this function, in effect 1371 substituting a full duplex X.25 virtual circuit for a permanent 1372 bisync line. The VMB or NJE protocols could then operate over 1373 this link. Hyperion uses a 2703-lookalike[2] to tunnel NJE over TCP/IP. MTS also supported the 2703[3], although it was eventually replaced with the PDP-8 Data Concentrator[4], which was itself replaced with the PDP-11... -----> The point: did the PDP-11 HIM/NIM/PCP/SCP/whatever support NJE over a bisync line? Or was it TCP/IP, X.25, and local terminals only? Would the 2703 be the only way to get BITNET on MTS, or would an NJE-supporting frontend be the better option, perhaps in combination with NJE-Bridge[5]? <----- [1]http://moshix.dynu.net/bitnet.nodes [2]https://github.com/SDL-Hercules-390/hyperion/blob/master/readme/README.TCPNJE.md [3]https://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/gallery/gallery8.html [4]https://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/gallery/gallery7.html [5]http://moshix.dynu.net/snanje/ 7.) ASMH is not available due to licensing. More than half the system is written in Plus[1]. Is it possible to recompile only the Plus-based portions, plugging in the already-assembled (and/or manually patched) ASMH portions after the fact? Or is ASMH still required for the existing build process, absent some heavy modifications to the build scripts? (Not that I'm capable of any meaningful modifications, as my programming skills are nascent.) [1]https://hercules-390.yahoogroups.narkive.com/0ZGhicL6/mts-assembler-re-re-sample-os-madnick-poor-man-s-3270-support Thank you for for taking time to resp

Folks, I can see we have thee types of users in this group. One type have received a re-verification message from groups.io and replied, to these I say Thank You. One type, the ones I am targeting here, have received the message and not replied. If they continue to ignore this message they will be removed from all their groups by groups.io and their fully qualified domains blacklisted. They are all personal domains, or personal sub-domains of a larger domain, so the chances are no one else will notice. This action has been forced by an e-mail from groups.io being received in a honeypot mailbox. Oh and to the vast majority, who use gmail.com, outlook.com or yahoo.com just go back to sleep. Sorry I woke you. Dave

Hi. My name is William Gallant. I am new to MTS. I hardly know any MTS commands or how to find my way around the OS or use files, etc... I am looking for a way to get a disassembled listing of the APL object file on tape d5.0t1.aws I tried the OBJLIST program with options "ALL" selected but only got a complete detailed cross-reference of symbols and hex dumps of CSI records ( code mixed with data ) some which are 32767 bytes long. Question - Is there a way, using the program OBJUTIL instead of OBJLIST to obtain a disassemble listing ( even if piece by piece )? -- William Gallant

I am trying to compile a "C" program under MITS 6.0a. Trying to use the CBELL compiler. Not having any success. As anyone be able to compile "C" using this compiler. Thank You Tom c

Just wondering how the HIM code merge into Hercules is coming. I know there was a flurry of activity last month, but some issues popped up.

OK – I was able to get the dump file. Zipped up, its 1.6mb. John

All the MTS archive sites appear to have gone. Can MTS still be downloaded? Dave

The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the H390-MTS@groups.io group. /d6.0A.zip By: Doug Wegscheid <dwegscheid@...> Description: D6.0 DASD images, ready to run under Hercules. The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the H390-MTS@groups.io group. /MTSD6.0A.cnf By: Doug Wegscheid <dwegscheid@...> Description: Version AN302 (2012.01.30) of a Hercules config for D6.0a.zip (slightly newer than the one in the ZIP file) The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the H390-MTS@groups.io group. /MTS D6.0A - A pre-built MTS system for use with the Hercules S_370 emulator - Michigan Terminal System Archive - https___sites.google.com_site_michiganterminalsystem_mts-d60A#TOC-Download.pdf By: Doug Wegscheid <dwegscheid@...> Description: A PDF of the now-defunct https://sites.google.com/site/michiganterminalsystem/mts-d60A

If you guys want anyone to test Confer out on 6.0, I can do so if someone can copy the files into an .AWS tape file.

Mike - are you on the Hercules-390 group? We found an issue, but not sure if its MTS or Hercules setting. Wondering what base version you are working with. See message below. -----Original Message----- From: group@hercules-390.groups.io <group@hercules-390.groups.io> On Behalf Of Fish Fish Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2023 20:34 To: group@hercules-390.groups.io Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Anyone running Hercules 4.5 on NetBSD? John Palmer wrote: [...] > HHC00801I Processor CP00: Protection exception interruption code 0004 > ilc 4 HHC02324I PSW=070D100000164324 INST=42609011 STC 6,17(0,9) > store_character HHC02326I V:00000011:R:0000000000000011:K:0E=000000 > 00000000 033D2000 0001CE2A 07 ................ > HHC02269I GR00=00000018 GR01=00166780 GR02=00166254 GR03=F560F2F3 > HHC02269I GR04=00000000 GR05=00000000 GR06=FFFFFFF2 GR07=00000000 > HHC02269I GR08=00036A60 GR09=00000000 GR10=00162D18 GR11=00163D18 > HHC02269I GR12=00165EC8 GR13=8016421E GR14=80164302 GR15=00000000 > HHC02271I CR00=18B0FE40 CR01=0012D000 CR02=00000000 CR03=FFFF0000 > HHC02271I CR04=00000000 CR05=00000000 CR06=70000000 CR07=00000000 > HHC02271I CR08=000000FF CR09=00000000 CR10=00000000 CR11=00000000 > HHC02271I CR12=000B3F1D CR13=00000000 CR14=1F000000 CR15=00000000 And this is precisely why I recommend *never* using OSTAILOR QUIET! (*) The above would never have been logged if OSTAILOR QUIET had been used, and you would still be scratching your head today wondering why MTS keeps crashing. As you can plainly see, MTS has an obvious bug: it's trying to do a STC (Store Character) into 17 bytes past where register 9 is pointing, but register 9 contains ZERO, meaning it's trying to do a Store Character in low core. "But Fish! The PSW key is zero!" Yes, BUT... Control Register 0 also has Low-Address Protection enabled too (bit 3 (X'10') of Control Register 0). Thus a Protection Exception is correctly and properly throw. "But Fish! Why does Hercules 3.13 work?" Because Hercules 3.13 is known to be buggy. It fails to pass the skey370 integrity test, meaning its Storage Key handling isn't adhering to the architecture. SDL Hyperion's does. > I've heard people say that they have MTS running on various types of > machines running Hercules 4.5, so maybe it needs to be built with > different options on different machines. I don't know anything about that. I've never tried running MTS. I know absolutely *nothing* about it. I know Hercules, but nothing about any of many guest operating systems that are able to run under it. I leave that to our users who run such operating systems. They're responsible for their end. I'm responsible for mine.

Has anyone gotten “PTR2” to work with any versioin of Hercules? I’ve got 4.6 and have tried these settings: #000E 1403 Units/PTR2.txt lpp=66 fcb=1:11,4:1,5:5,8:10,14:6,19:4,24:7,34:2,44:6,49:4,54:7,63:8,66:3 optprint # PTR2 000E 1403 Units/PTR2.txt fcb=0111040105050810140619042407340244064904540763086603 #PTR2 #000E 1403 Units/PTR2.txt nofcbcheck # PTR2 #000E 1403 Units/PTR2.txt # PTR2 But HASP won’t start the printer at all. Thanks

Just wondering what changes were made to Assembler-H to make it support MTS and could those be ported to Assembler-G. Are there any other assemblers that work on MTS that could be modified easier? I got a bunch of rates stuff assembled successfully with Assembler G after modifying some of the macros. The final piece is RNBRSUB. I wrote a local copy with my own billing classes, but it Has a bunch of includes that I have to restore from the distribution tapes. Not sure there are landmines in there. Comments in RNBRSUB say it can be installed with Pistle, which I assume is a way to hot-swap system components without an IPL. Is there some documentation on this? To install it permanently, I assume I use RAMROD. On TCP/IP – are there any Telnet connections configured in the d6.0A TABLES? If I use Mike Alexander’s current code, will I be able to test out internet stuff with d6.0A? Anxiously awaiting d7.0, especially Confer. 😊

I know some people were poking around with rates. After digging extensivly, I discovered that you cannot have a rate for terminal time that is less than 3.6 cents per hour. In the W013 (Engler) code, RATEGEN claims that terminal time is represented in $/hr * 1000, so to specify $2/hr, I would enter 2000 (decimal) as the first rate element. However…. MTS has another idea when it uses those rates. Bottom line – it takes the value you specify and divides it by 36. If you specify less than 18 decimal, you always get zero. Anything over that - it adjusts to the nearest 3.6 cents per hour. Relevant code from GETRATES#SA: repeat when Cvttbl(J) < 0; Cost := Ratefile_Rates(K) + Ratefile_Rates(K + 1) + Ratefile_Rates(K + 2); if Cost > 0 then variable Long_Cost is bit(64), Remainder is bit(32); Multiply_Long_Integer(Cost, Cvttbl(J), Long_Cost); Divide_Long_Integer(Long_Cost, Cvttbl(J + 1), Cost, Remainder); Remainder *:= 2; if Remainder >= Cvttbl(J + 1) then Cost +:= 1; /* Round */ end if; end if; The Cvttbl is an integer array – for each rate element, the first one is a Muliplication factor, the second one is what you divide the rate by. For TT (terminal time) – it multiplies by 1 and divides by 36. So, If I specify 10 (what I think should be a penny per hour), it: Takes 10 * 1 = 10 Then 10 / 36 (integer divide) and gets 0 with a remainder of 10. If I multiply that by 2, it comes out to 20 which is less than 36 so the rate gets forced to 0. So, it converts the rate you gave it to that rate / 36 and then supposably later, multiplies it by 36 again, but it make the rate a multiple of $0.036 / hr Not sure what the meaning of this code is, but bottom line: No TT rate < $0.036 / hr AND All rates are forced to be a multiple of $0.036 / hr for terminal time. My next question is: When I log on, Log off or say $DISPLAY COST, it says “No Charges”, which isn’t true since, if I have rates and a MAXCHG > 0 on my ID, I get charged. What controls this “No Charge” message and what does it really mean. Rich accounts can always sign on, but ARE charged, that is, if they have a MAXCHG > $0.0. Probably too much deep geek for most people…. 😊

Does anyone know what tool can be used to look and edit the system rates in *RATEFILE? Is there a document that describes the format of the file? I would like to experiment with setting different rates. Is there anything else that I need to do to turn on real rates? I’m also not sure I understand the difference between IDR number , University Account Number and Unit code. Do any one of those provide a key value into rates? There isn’t much descriptive info on these in the ACCOUNTING documentation, other than that these three are apparently integers. Also, when I create new ID’s, ACCMAINT sometimes barks at me about the “Account Number appears to be Invalid”. I assume that ACCMAINT has some hard coded relationship between the 1st letter of the ID and an allowable account number. Also, interesting that the BLOCK=xxxx parameter on ACCMAINT can only be used with IDs that start with certain letters. I assume this is some sort of U of M business office convention. Also, I know at WSU, they excluded all of the vowels as being allowed as the 2nd, 3rd and 4th character of the IDs, whereas it looks like the U of M convention was to just exclude I’s and O’s (so as not to mix them up with the numerals 0 and 1). Thanks John

Looks like the archive site is gone, unless I am using the wrong URL…